Episode 8 - Theodore Roosevelt: A Man of Many Parks

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Today, we welcome back to the Talk About Teddy podcast, our good friend and 31 year veteran of the National Park Service, Valerie Naylor.

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Welcome back, Valerie.

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Thank you.

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It's great to be here again.

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Valerie, could you tell us about yourself for our listeners who may not have heard your visit with us in episode six? I was a former superintendent of Theodore Roosevelt National Park, very proud I spent so much time there.

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I'm the longest serving superintendent so far at 11 and a half years, and I also worked there starting as a volunteer in 1979 and for several seasons as a seasonal ranger, an employee of the cooperating association, and as a researcher.

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So I have a long history with Theodore Roosevelt National Park.

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All right.

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man, we're excited to have you back, Valerie.

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Um, well, as you know, we're going to call this episode, uh, Theodore Roosevelt, a man of many parks.

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Um, supposed to be a clever play on words there, but, uh, so when, uh, when the presidents are, are rated by historians, um, TR is usually ranked up there in the top five with Washington, with Lincoln.

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you know, he respected both of those guys tremendously, uh, I think, he may not be crazy about his face being on Mount Rushmore, but I think he'd be pleased to share the space with those two at least.

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And, you mentioned before that, um, that, Lincoln has six parks, uh, dedicated to him in the park system, as does TR, uh, you know, which I'm, certain that TR would be, you know, pleased with immensely there.

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Um, would you describe for our listeners those national parks that are dedicated to the memory of TR? Sure, there are six, at least the way I count them up and most people, and it's interesting because the first one set aside that Um, and that's what helped to memorialize Theodore Roosevelt was Mount Rushmore.

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And that was set aside as a national memorial in 1925, even before the mountain was carved.

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And so of course he's up there with you.

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You mentioned Washington and Lincoln.

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You didn't mention Thomas Jefferson.

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I think there's probably a reason for that.

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Gutzon Borglum who, Carve Mount Rushmore, who was the sculptor.

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He had a lot to do with Theodore Roosevelt being up there on Mount Rushmore.

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He had a lot to do with developing the entire sculpture, but he had been campaign person for Roosevelt and he had met Roosevelt.

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So he had a special place in his heart for Theodore Roosevelt and ensured that he was there on Mount Rushmore with the other three.

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The second one set aside in 1932 was Theodore Roosevelt Island in Washington, D.

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C.

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It's in the Potomac, and it's about 88 and a half acres.

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And it was overgrown farmland at one point, and then the Theodore Roosevelt Association Acquired it and donated it to the federal government.

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The C.

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C.

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C.

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Worked out there.

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A forest was restored and there's a statue of Theodore Roosevelt there, but really the entire island is More or less a nature preserve that is a tribute to him.

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There's a lot of, of natural habitat there for wildlife, other birds, or for birds, other wildlife.

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There's some forest land, marsh, swamp, of course the river.

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There are hiking trails for recreation.

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I think he would be delighted to have that as a memorial It's a, it embodied the strenuous life, the love of nature, conservation, all of it.

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And it's right there in Washington, D.

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C.

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Yeah.

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great place that can, a lot of people can reach easily.

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And a great place for them to spend time and see the kinds of things that inspired Theodore Roosevelt.

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It's a little off the beaten track there in the Potomac, isn't it? it is a little bit as far as getting there, but, um, you can sure do it, and it's, it's close into town, but, uh, Theodore Roosevelt National Park was the third one established, and we talked about that in our previous podcast in 1947 in the North Dakota Badlands, of course, and that's the largest of the parks that are tributes to him at about 70, 000 acres, and then at Sagamore Hill National Historic Site, which, of course, was Theodore Roosevelt's home, was established as a National Historic Site in 1962 in Oyster Bay, Long Island.

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And it really is a place that tells the story of his life and his legacy and especially his family.

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It's 83 acres in a place that he had visited and loved since he was a child really in the 1870s.

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he lived there with Edith starting in I think about 1887.

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It was really the summer White House, the place where he raised his six children, and he died there Yeah.

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in 1919.

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And in fact, Edith died there too in 1948.

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So really is an excellent and beautiful memorial to Theodore Roosevelt and his family.

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The Theodore Roosevelt Association donated that in 1962.

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And that same year, they also.

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donated, the Theodore Roosevelt birthplace.

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In New York City.

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And that was the home that he his first few years.

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was donated by the TR Association.

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His grandfather bought it in 1850 and gave it to Theodore as a wedding present.

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Theodore Roosevelt was born in 1858.

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then it wasn't until 1873 that the family moved from that location.

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Well, that house, as you probably know, was demolished, actually, it was sold in 1873 and demolished, but then it was rebuilt, and because the one next door was the mirror image, they were able to rebuild it with accuracy, and so that was great, and so after TR's death in 1919, the family had bought it back and rebuilt it, and then it became a museum, and then in 1962, the TR Association donated it to the National Park Service.

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So then in 1971, the Theodore Roosevelt Inaugural National Historic Site was opened.

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And that was on September 14th, exactly 70 years after he was inaugurated in the Wilcox mansion in Buffalo.

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And that's when it was open.

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And so Wilcox had this large house in Buffalo, and he was a of the law.

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He was a conservationist and a reformer, much like Roosevelt, and he was a friend of TR.

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And when President McKinley was shot, and when he died, he was a guest in that house.

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And so that's where he was inaugurated in 1901.

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It's a very different park because it's not operated by the National Park Service, although it is a unit of the National Park System, but it's operated the TR Inaugural Site Foundation, a non profit.

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So it's a cooperative agreement between the National Park Service and the non profit.

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That keeps that side open.

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is that called a National Historic Site? It is, yes.

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Yeah, So it's definitely one of the National Park Units.

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It's just operated independently by a non profit.

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So yeah.

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that, uh, there were also six parks that Abraham Lincoln, uh, could claim as commemorating him, and those are the Lincoln Memorial, uh, dedicated in 1922 in Washington, D.

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C.,

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Abraham Lincoln Birthplace in Kentucky, which was made a National Historic Site in 1916, the Lincoln Boyhood National Memorial in Indiana, Mount Rushmore, of course, which he shares with Theodore Roosevelt and others, Home in Springfield that became a National Park in Illinois in 1971, and then Ford's Theater and the house where Lincoln died in Washington, D.

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C.

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So those are the six that are dedicated to Abraham Lincoln.

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So, hmm it's rare for any one person to have any national park unit, uh, established to honor them.

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But it's particularly rare for any one person, even a president, to have six.

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But T.

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R.

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and Lincoln both do.

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I think T.

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R.

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would be pleased with that as well.

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I know he wrote to Bill Sewell in 1906 that, I don't have to tell you that my great hero is Abraham Lincoln.

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So, I can just see T.

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R.

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grinning and delighted about that.

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Yeah, I think from aside from his father, um, probably there's, there's no other man in history.

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He admired more than Lincoln.

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But he had an early introduction to Lincoln, didn't he, when he, didn't he watch the funeral procession when he was Yeah, a young boy? yeah.

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From his grandfather's house, Cornelius Van Shack Roosevelt.

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He's watching it with his brother Elliot, and Edith Carot, who was a neighbor.

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But she starts crying since she's about three and a half, and he and Elliot don't want to be disturbed.

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They're young boys, about five and a half TRs, and picks little Edith up, carries her out of the room, and locks the door.

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So.

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Heh heh heh heh heh.

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And a romance was born.

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yeah.

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right.

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heh heh.

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Well, Valerie, I was wondering if we could follow up, as since we're still talking about these, these six, um, sites dedicated to TR, as I understand you had a role.

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when you were superintendent at TR National Park of, uh,, acquiring a,, Centennial Challenge Grant with Park Service, could you talk a little bit more about what that was about? Yeah, the centennial of the National Park Service being established was in 2016.

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And they put forth a, a centennial challenge.

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type of grant program.

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And so the National Park Service could put in for money and then have a nonprofit partner or some other kind of partner contribute the same amount or more and we could get things done.

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And so I put in Two different projects during that time, and a lot of the superintendents, I think, were waiting for the following year, but I went ahead that first year, and we were able to get money to digitize some of the collections for the Theodore Roosevelt Center in Dickinson, North Dakota, that were from Theodore Roosevelt National Park and those six parks dedicated to Theodore Roosevelt.

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They're not all finished yet, but State put in a lot of money.

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Yeah.

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the National Park Service did.

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But it was a great start to that project of digitizing of the papers and such from the six parks that were established to honor Theodore Roosevelt.

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And then there was another one that, uh, the park worked with Friends of the Elkhorn Ranch, which was a, loose group of people that cared about the future of the Elkhorn and didn't want it to be destroyed by development surrounding it.

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And we were able to put in some exhibits and Just a few small, uh, things that added to the ambiance of the Elkhorn Ranch without adding any development.

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And that was a really great partnership as well.

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Yeah, that's just a cool story that you, as a superintendent of one of those parks had a role in, in helping the TR Center.

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You know, get the funding and, and the initiative to, to find those gems, hopefully, that were still hidden away, uh, in some of the other TR sites or TR items.

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So, that's, uh, we, we have all benefited from that, that work, so thanks.

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heh.

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for sure.

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And also it was a good opportunity to put in some, uh, interpretive exhibits in a very tasteful way at the Elkhorn Ranch.

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And some gates that fit the scenery so people didn't have to.

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Uh, climb through barbed wire or around some uncomfortable cattle guard.

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So that worked very well too, working with Friends of the Elkhorn.

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So those were both really great projects and I was very lucky to secure those and to have partners who were willing to donate an equal or much greater amount of money to make it happen.

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I know Kurt and I, in our historical portrayals of Theodore Roosevelt, we've discovered that there's many myths about TR and the national parks.

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Could you tell us what TR did and didn't do for the national parks? Sure, I often hear people say, Oh, Theodore Roosevelt, we love him.

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He's, gave us our first National Parks, he's responsible for the National Parks, sometimes people will even say he's responsible for the National Parks Service, or that he created, uh, Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota, which he certainly didn't do, so, um, I don't want to burst their bubble because Theodore Roosevelt did so much for the National Parks and he did so much for the National Forests and so much for our National Wildlife Refuge System conservation in general, but he certainly did not preserve Theodore Roosevelt National Park because the idea for that came up much later and I don't think R.

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would set aside a national park for himself, at that time, but, that one was established, as I mentioned, in 1947.

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He also did not create the first national park, by any means.

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That was, uh, generally considered to be Yellowstone National Park, which was set aside by President Grant in 1872.

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Now, there are some disputes about that because it all depends on how you think about it because Congress set aside Hot Springs Reservation in Arkansas back in, in 1832 as a place preserved for recreation and that was the first time the federal government ever put aside anything like that and it became a national park in 1921 and then it Abraham Lincoln set aside Yosemite in 1864.

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Congress passed the legislation, but then that was given to California as a state park and it didn't become a national park until 1890.

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So have to give a little bit of time to those two parks that were sort of the original idea before we knew to call them Yeah.

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Oh.

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Yellowstone was the first one in 1872 and there were five at the time when Theodore Roosevelt.

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And interestingly though, there were a couple of others that were established that were not any longer national parks at the time TR took office, but he doubled the size of the national park system, but it wasn't really a system.

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Then there were just five parks and he made it 10 parks during his time in office.

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Mm hmm.

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when he took office, the first five national parks were Yellowstone, Yosemite, Mount Rainier.

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Sequoia and General Grant, and General Grant was a very small national park near Sequoia, and its purpose was to protect what we call Grant's Grove in what is now Kings Canyon National Park that then encompassed that area.

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so Sequoia and Kings Canyon are managed together because they're close by each other there.

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And did you know that at one time, there was a to call that Grant Grove area, Roosevelt National Park.

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But it, I don't think I did, no.

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Yeah, it didn't go Yeah.

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Wow.

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Could you describe those for us? Wind, yeah, what was the, what time were they considering, uh, doing that, do you know? the Okay.

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Oh, yeah.

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Wow.

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Hmm.

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and working on.

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creating a national park around Grants Grove.

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Okay.

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So when, when Sequoia and then Kings Canyon National Park was established, it was a discussion that did not pass Congress, so that never happened.

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So then Theodore Roosevelt was able to establish five national parks during his tenure.

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so, the five that, uh, that Roosevelt established, there was Crater Lake in 1902, right? wind Cave in 1903 Solis Hill, 1904 Plat National Park, 1906, and, uh, right here in Colorado, Mesa Verde, 1906.

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That's correct.

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So Theodore Roosevelt, uh, wanted to establish Crater Lake National Park.

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There was a lot of local support for that and people wrote him letters and really pushed for that.

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And so that was the first of the national parks that he established.

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And the second was Wind Cave National Park South Dakota.

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And that was the first one that was set aside, that was a cave any kind of a national park.

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And then there was Sully's Hill National Park in North Dakota.

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And that's one most people haven't heard of, because it doesn't exist anymore.

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But that one has a long and convoluted story, you could even say that it wasn't really a national park.

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It was national, and it was a park, and it was called a national park.

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But that is a story probably too long for today's broadcast.

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And We hope to get to that in the future.

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I hope so too.

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And then Platt National Park in Oklahoma was also a strange one with a, an unusual history.

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But that was an area that belonged to the Chickasaw and Choctaw people, and it was a spring, and a very important one, they had to get their water.

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they could see that development was happening all around them, and they thought that their access to the water would be cut off.

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And so they sold some land to the federal government, known as the Sulphur Springs Reservation, and that was to set aside that spring so they would have access.

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And then the name was changed a few years later to Platt National Park, and it was done so quickly, and it was just a signature.

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I don't think Roosevelt really had much to do with that.

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just signed it.

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And in fact, the person that was acting of as the superintendent of the Sulphur Springs Reservation got a letter in the mail and said, From now on, it will be known.

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Platt National Park and he said, okay, I'll change the letterhead and that was really all it was To it, but it is still there and it's quite an intriguing place Platt National Park didn't have any of the Usual things that you would think would be in a national park.

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And so the CCC went in there and built waterfalls and bridges and fountains and planted trees and shrubs and made it look more park like.

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And it's a great little spot near Sulphur, Oklahoma.

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And it was later incorporated into Chickasaw National Recreation Area, which is there today.

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And so if you go to Chickasaw National Recreation Area, you will see Blatt National Historic District.

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And it's beautiful.

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It's a great place to walk around, look at birds, enjoy some water, stream.

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it's not what you'd normally consider a national park.

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But it is still part of a national park unit.

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I can't get over how many times you have referenced the CCC and how really we are still the benefactors of, uh, of all that hard work put in in the 1930s with the Civilian Conservation Corps and our park system.

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They did an amazing job, especially considering the time period, because they did a lot of it by hand, things that would never be considered today to be done by hand.

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And because of that, they've lasted, and they are not as intrusive on the landscape as many things that are built today.

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The other national park that TR established, which I didn't mention, was Mesa Verde National Park, which was established in 1906.

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And that is important.

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You mentioned it was in Colorado.

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That was the first one set aside for its cultural resources, or to preserve the Yeah.

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as they said.

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All the other national parks were set aside more for scenery or natural resources, as we'd call them today.

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But, of course, Mesa Verde protects the archaeological sites that were built by the ancestral Pueblo people.

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Mm hmm.

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So, that's a very special one and remains a national park today.

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So, of the five national parks that Theodore Roosevelt established, three of them are still national parks.

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Mm hmm.

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Crater Lake, Verde, and Wind Cave.

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Platte National Park is incorporated into Chickasaw National Recreation Area.

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what was Sully's Hill National Park is now Whitehorse Hill National Game Preserve in North Dakota.

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So they all still exist under federal management, uh, not all exactly what they were at the beginning.

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You said, Roosevelt was a child when, when Yellowstone was brought into existence as a park, but he does have a real role to play there.

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And it's with the Boone and Crockett Club, uh, with, um, what became the 1894 Yellowstone Park Protection Act.

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you know, that's, such an interesting T.

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R.

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tie in there with the Boone and Crockett Club fighting to keep the Northern Pacific Railway from, you know, plowing through the middle of, uh, Yellowstone National Park and, and, I think, by the early 1890s, you had In Yellowstone, the last remaining wild bison herd in America, it was down to perhaps even just a hundred head of bison, I think, but there was no penalties for poachers.

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And so, you know, the, the worst the park superintendent could do there was literally just confiscate their rifle and kick them out of the park, knowing that.

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They'd be dealing with them again in a couple of weeks.

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Um, and so poachers had almost decimated the game in our nation's first great national park.

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So it took this, this, uh, new law to, to enact game protections and, um, actual penalties and it had much to do with TR and, George Bird Grinnell with the Boone and Crockett Club.

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That's right, and that was important.

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There was a lot of stumbling around in the early days.

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When you have your very first national park, who manages it? How do you manage it? Yeah.

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laws give you the authority to protect it and such? So, that's true.

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I know on June 8th, um, 1906, T.

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R.

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signed the law, An Act for the Preservation of American Antiquities, which we know as the Antiquities Act.

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Can you tell us about the background of the act and what significance it had to the National Park Service? Well, it was significant because it allowed a president to declare by public proclamation any historic landmark, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic and scientific interest future generations.

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And Theodore Roosevelt signed that into existence.

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And then he proclaimed his very first national monument.

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Devil's Tower in Wyoming in September of And I always think, what took him so long? You know, three months it took him Yeah.

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proclaim his first national monument.

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Maybe he was giving it a little bit of time to settle, after the antiquities act was passed and many national monuments have been established by presidents since there's only been, I believe, three presidents that have not used the antiquities act at all.

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And it was always implied that, that, uh, if a, if a president was to use that, that executive authority that they should, um, do so limiting the, uh, the lands to the, to the, the smallest, um, space, right? The, I mean, I'm trying to think of the, uh, the wording of that again.

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The, uh, I think the issue with that, though, In the past, it is not known as well as it is today of how much it takes to protect a specific area, let me give you an example from my own career.

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I was superintendent of Scotts Bluff National Monument, which is in western Nebraska.

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It was proclaimed in 1918, and it has 3000 acres, basically, and Mm.

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a big square along the Platte River, and so um, The monument was set aside to protect the views of and from the bluff and the Oregon Trail that goes through that area, etc.

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in those days, in 1918, the towns were far away and 3, 000 acres seemed like a lot just sitting out there in the prairie with a bluff in the middle of it.

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But now when you look at it, the towns have come up right to the boundary It's not very well protecting the views of and from the bluff or very much of the Oregon Trail or the prairie surrounding it, which is very important to that ecosystem.

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that's because it just seems back in 1918 that that needed to be bigger to protect that bluff, but now if you look at it It would have been nice if it had been larger That's not going to happen now But it it would have been a a better park if it had been a little bit bigger so I think we have to look at it in that way now We know a lot more about ecosystems and wildlife and habitats and corridors and things that we need to preserve areas so, the monuments tend to be larger now, in many cases.

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uh, Theodore Roosevelt proclaimed his first monument in September of 1906.

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Of course, he only had about two plus years more in office.

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So, in 19 Well, later in 1906, in December, he proclaimed El Morro in New Mexico, Montezuma Castle in Arizona, Petrified Forest in Arizona, and then, in 1907, he proclaimed Chaco Canyon National Monument, Lassen Peak and Cinder Cone National Monuments in California, Tonto National Monument in Arizona, and Gila Cliff Dwellings National Monument in New Mexico.

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So there were five.

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then in 1908, he did Muir Woods in California, in the Bay Area, Canyon, because Congress wouldn't make it a national park, so he proclaimed Grand Canyon National Monument, Pinnacles National Monument in California, Cave National Monument in South Dakota.

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Natural Bridges in Utah, and Clark Caverns in Montana, in Arizona, and Wheeler National Monument in Colorado.

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And then just a few days before he left office, he proclaimed Mount Olympus National Monument in Washington.

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And some of those are national parks today, or have different names besides national monuments.

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But all but one are still under federal care and federal management.

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So there is a long history of establishing a large national monument to protect some place that's spectacular and special from special interests.

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And that continues today as well.

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Of those national monuments that Theodore Roosevelt established, uh, many of them still are national monuments.

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Petrified Forest is now Petrified Forest National Park.

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had the pleasure of working there for a short time.

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Lassen Peak and Cinder Cone National Monuments in California.

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consolidated into Lassen Volcanic National Park, which is spectacular in the California mountains.

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Canyon National Monument is now Chaco Culture National Historical Park.

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Um, Grand Canyon, as we mentioned, is a national park.

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Pinnacles is a national park.

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And Mount Olympus is now part of Olympic National Park in Washington State.

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So, I think some of our listeners might, uh, might be attuned to this, but, can you maybe just explain the distinction then, if the Antiquities Act gives the president the authority to unilaterally declare by executive authority, uh, a national monument, what then is required for a national park to be established? It takes an act of Congress to establish a national park, so, as a friend of mine used to say in her interpretive program, for a national monument, you only had to convince one person.

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a national park, you had to convince hundreds of people, and the president had to sign it.

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And so, it's much more complicated to establish a national park.

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However, many monuments, including the Grand Canyon, as we mentioned, are now national parks, and have had that act of Congress to establish them as such.

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As far as the, the re designated.

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Parks, uh, under TR, you've, you've talked about Solis Hill and, Platt, uh, what has become of, of a couple of those monuments, uh, Wheeler and, and Lewis and Clark? Lewis and Clark Caverns was a national monument.

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They set it aside.

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They had rangers from Yellowstone, which is a fair distance, especially in those days, go up there and check on it once in a while to make sure it was okay.

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And, but it wasn't really managed because they were waiting for funding and they didn't have funding to do anything with it as a national And there was a man named Morrison who was one of the first ones to really explore those caves along with some others.

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And he wanted to make a commercial enterprise out of it and he asked the Park Service and they said no.

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So he did it anyway.

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And he would lead tours of the caves, let people take little pieces home with them and such.

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He hired staff, he hired tour guides, all these things.

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And the Park Service would go up once or twice a year and change the lock on the gate.

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And tell him to knock it off and then he, as soon as they left, he'd go back and do it again and then they'd go up again and change the lock on the gate and so it was a long time and there was still no funding for that and Montana had created a state park system, but there were no parks.

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so, they thought this would make a great first state park for Montana, it was.

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And so, the federal government ceded that to Montana as a state park, and it has run very well.

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They do a great job.

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It might be my favorite cave park anywhere.

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It's kind of a difficult one to get to.

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You have to climb up a hill and then go through and there's a little ladder or like a little chute you have to slide down inside and all of that.

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Wow.

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they do a great job of preserving it.

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They, they do a lot with interpretation of the protection, the importance of protection of the cave and the bats and, and all of that.

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And so I love going there.

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It's named Lewis and Clark because Lewis and Clark went by it, but they never saw it and Really? It was thought that the Native Americans never really went in there either.

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It wasn't until later.

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It was very well hidden in the day, Mm.

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Yeah, it's, uh, pretty near the, the, uh, Three Forks area there in, in Montana where they had to make the decision, uh, which, uh, which course they were going to proceed up.

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It's a Pretty area.

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and I in my opinion Montana does an excellent job of managing Yeah.

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other one is really interesting too is Wheeler National Monument in Colorado proclaimed that one It is near Creed, Colorado.

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And people did visit it.

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They would take horses and wagons in there in the early days after it was proclaimed.

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But once the highways started going through, people weren't as interested in doing that anymore.

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weren't really interested in taking horses and wagons when they could take the highway.

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so it became pretty isolated.

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And so today it's, uh, back to Forest Service Management.

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It's part of the Rio Grande National Forest in the La Garita Wilderness Area.

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It's a special, uh, geologic area within a wilderness, within a national forest.

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So it has great protection.

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it's very hard to get there.

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It's a 14 mile rough road to get there.

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If you, and you can't get all the way to the, uh, For more monument by road.

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But you can get sort of close, and it takes a pretty good, kind of a 4 by 4, side by side to get there.

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It is the, that road has the deepest ruts that I have ever seen in my Wow.

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and you can hike there as well.

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It's difficult, not much because of the terrain, but because it's at 11, 000 feet, Mm.

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and so unless you're acclimated to that, takes some pretty heavy breathing.

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To Well, Larry doesn't know this, but when he comes out to visit me in Colorado, we're taking a field trip there and we're hiking to the top.

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Um, so, alright.

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Fully.

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Well, I, did take a little expedition there a few years ago with three, four close friends of mine.

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There were five of us we did rent A U.

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T.

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V.

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we went up the road and then hiked into the area.

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And it is absolutely amazing and fascinating.

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But I think again, the Forest Service is doing a great job of preserving it there in the wilderness.

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Wow.

316
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I think T.

317
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R.

318
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was shown some photographs of that area and I can't help but think it reminded him somewhat of, of the Badlands of North, North Dakota.

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Possibly it's a very different formation in a lot of ways.

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But of course, erosion plays a role.

321
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So it has some similarities and it's beautiful.

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It's fascinating and it's a good hike to some pretty good exercise getting into there.

323
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We're excited.

324
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You've agreed to be the National Parks Vagabond Tour Guide to explore with listeners on the Talk About Teddy podcast, the 23 parks that TR designated during his presidency.

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Could you tell our listeners how you plan to organize the podcast tours? Well, I think we should organize them by region Yeah.

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and look at the different parks that he established.

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As you know, I do work very part time for the Theodore Roosevelt Center in Dickinson, North Dakota at Dickinson State University.

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And so, the job that I've had for them for the last few years is going around to these various, National Parks and Monuments that Theodore Roosevelt established and seeing what's in their collections that would be of interest to the Theodore Roosevelt Center.

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And some of the parks have a lot of material.

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Some of it is really funny and interesting and some of it is Uh, rather mundane and kind of, uh, you know, governmental.

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But, some of them don't have anything either.

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But it's still a great opportunity to go to these parks and see what they might have.

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And it's something that I do when I travel anyway.

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Which I do most of the time, and that's where I get the National Park Vagabond moniker.

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My official title with the Theodore Roosevelt Center is National Parks Researcher.

336
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So I think it would make sense that we could talk about the national parks that Theodore Roosevelt established on the west coast in Washington, Oregon, and California.

337
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The parks Mm hmm.

338
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We could talk about those that he established in the desert southwest.

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Arizona and New Mexico.

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And then in the Rocky Mountains, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah.

341
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Yeah.

342
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And then the parks in the Great Plains, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Oklahoma, in this case.

343
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And that would be a nice way to organize those, to discuss them and why he did that.

344
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He didn't establish any national parks or monuments in the Eastern U.

345
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S.

346
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No.

347
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in the West.

348
00:37:45,42.099 --> 00:37:50,828.099
Yeah, a lot of that land was, uh, pretty much spoken for east of the Mississippi, wasn't it? Well, that's true.

349
00:37:50,838.099 --> 00:37:58,368.099
Although there are new national monuments there a lot now in various places, recognizing other parts of our history.

350
00:37:58,368.099 --> 00:38:06,378.098
And that's a really great thing about the National Park System is that there are no more yellow stones out there, but there are many places.

351
00:38:07,243.099 --> 00:38:14,653.099
That are significant scientifically and also places that are very important to our history as a people in the U.

352
00:38:14,653.099 --> 00:38:14,973.099
S.

353
00:38:15,833.0985 --> 00:38:19,403.099
those are still being added as national monuments to recognize that.

354
00:38:19,403.099 --> 00:38:23,293.098
Some of it are more recent history, say in the last 50 years.

355
00:38:25,12.099 --> 00:38:34,473.099
And what'd you say that number is at now for the, the total number of parks in the system? It should be 426 right now.

356
00:38:35,993.099 --> 00:38:36,463.098
Mm hmm.

357
00:38:37,813.099 --> 00:38:38,193.099
Yeah.

358
00:38:38,342.099 --> 00:38:47,12.1
So our next episode where we're going to have you on then we're talking about the, uh, the, the Pacific States, uh, Washington, Oregon, California.

359
00:38:47,12.1 --> 00:39:07,106.1
So that would, that would take in Mount Olympus in Washington, Crater Lake National Park in Oregon, Lassen Peak and Cinder Cone National Monuments, which is now Lassen Volcanic National Park in, in California, Muir Woods, Pinnacles in hmm.

360
00:39:07,512.099 --> 00:39:20,106.1
and we could also talk a little bit about Uh, Theodore Roosevelt's, things he said about Redwood and, uh, his visit to the Presidio, which is part of Golden Gate National Park, so there are other that'd be great.

361
00:39:20,119.1 --> 00:39:23,697.1
Yeah, but that could be, uh, our next podcast.

362
00:39:24,749.1 --> 00:39:25,899.1
that sounds wonderful.

363
00:39:27,141.1 --> 00:39:36,291.1
Well, Valerie, once again, we have loved having this conversation, about the park system and, and, uh, and talking about TR, a man of many parks.

364
00:39:36,431.099 --> 00:39:45,731.099
and, we are looking forward to the next time that we can get together and, about the Pacific parks and monuments associated with Theodore Roosevelt.

365
00:39:45,821.099 --> 00:39:49,271.099
So thank you so much, um, for being on again.

366
00:39:50,207.098 --> 00:39:51,7.098
Thank you, too.

367
00:39:51,277.099 --> 00:39:52,337.099
I really appreciate it.

368
00:39:52,477.099 --> 00:40:00,717.099
It's, uh, always great to talk about national parks, and it's always great to talk about Theodore Roosevelt, and one of my favorite topics is combining the two together.

369
00:40:01,539.099 --> 00:40:01,639.099
heh.

370
00:40:02,429.099 --> 00:40:02,809.099
Good.

371
00:40:03,269.099 --> 00:40:04,559.099
We've thoroughly enjoyed it.

372
00:40:05,306.099 --> 00:40:10,156.099
We've had some great feedback already from, uh, from your first episode, and I suspect that's going to keep up.

373
00:40:10,156.099 --> 00:40:13,686.099
So, um, if you love Valerie Naylor, keep tuning in.

374
00:40:14,289.099 --> 00:40:14,789.099
Yes.

375
00:40:15,477.099 --> 00:40:15,997.099
Thank you.