Episode 16 - Sagamore Hill National Historic Site

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Hello, and welcome to the Talk About Teddy podcast, our weekly conversations exploring the world of Theodore Roosevelt.

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I'm your host, Kurt Skinner, and I'm joined as ever by my good pal and co host, Larry Marple.

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Hey, Larry, could you tell our listeners about today's guests? Kurt, we are delighted to have three members of the staff from Sagamore Hill National Historic Site.

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Connolly, Chief of Cultural Resources, Bethany Cesare, an interpretive ranger who works in collections, and Lindsay Davenport, the museum technician.

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So welcome to the Talk About Teddy podcast.

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Oh, oh, thank you.

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Sorry.

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That's fine.

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We're not good at this.

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Oh, All right.

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great.

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All right.

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Uh, well, for those of us, Ted heads, as we're known, I suppose, uh, working at Sagamore Hill might sound like a bit of a dream job going there every day to, uh, to work.

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Uh, but I was wondering if each of you could briefly describe your duties there at Sagamore Hill National Historic Site.

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Sure.

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I am Bethany.

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I'm an interpretive Ranger.

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So I give tours of Theodore's house.

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I also work in the museum and visitor center answering questions and issuing passes.

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My name is Lindsay.

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I'm a museum technician there, which means I get to work behind the scenes.

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Um, I always kid around.

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I get to touch all this stuff, which is really fun.

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Oh, Um, but I also, it's, oh, it's great.

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Um, and I help take care of the house and the collections and the archives.

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Um, and then, you know, Yeah, and I also have helped out with interpretation before, and I also, um, helped run the social media accounts as well.

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I'm Claire.

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I'm the chief of cultural resources, so I work with Lindsay and all of our management team here to, uh, take care of all of our cultural resources, which include the historic buildings, the historic grounds, and the museum collections.

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Wonderful.

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As I said, and I didn't mean to interrupt earlier, I am jealous.

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It is a pretty good job.

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Yeah.

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I know Long Island's been a place for a long time of summer retreat for wealthy New York families, like the Roosevelt's.

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Could you share the history of the Roosevelt's in relation to Long Island? Yeah, definitely.

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Long Island has always kind of been a special place to the Roosevelt family, Oyster Bay in particular.

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Cornelius Van Shack Roosevelt, who is, as you know, TR's grandfather, rented a house out here.

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This is, in fact where he died.

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Um, and so there were a lot of factors that brought people out to Long Island and Oyster Bay in particular.

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Um, so the railroad was one of the big ones.

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In the 1850s, the Long Island Railroad had come out, um, to Syosset and it, It made it a lot easier.

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You could get a, um, you could actually get a of like almost a shuttle type service from Syosset to Oyster Bay.

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Eventually it moves farther into Locust Valley and then the Oyster Bay Station opens in 1889.

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Oyster Bay, um, the draw for this area especially was the water.

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There was a lot of water activities.

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Um, a really big sort of social club was the Swanaca Yacht Club.

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There are a number of Roosevelts who are founding members of the Swanaca Yacht Club and eventually Theodore Roosevelt Sr.

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joins as well.

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So that's what kind of starts the family coming out here.

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Um, in 1874, after having rented a few places for the summer in New Jersey in the Hudson Valley, I believe it was, um, the family comes out here for the first time.

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They rent a home called Tranquility.

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Which makes, I, it makes me laugh too, because I'm like, I'm sure it was nothing but tranquil when the family was there.

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Because the, again, the main draws here is first, it's, there's a lot of family, so there's cousins running around.

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But also, the family was big into outdoor activities as a way to build up the children's bodies, especially Theodore Roosevelt.

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And he ended up falling in love with this place because of how much he could do.

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outside, um, in nature.

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He started to sort of really hone his skills as a naturalist out here.

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He would go on hikes.

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he would go hunting.

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He would go rowing.

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Rowing was one of his favorite activities.

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Um, so eventually when it's time for him to choose an area to settle, he has all these fond memories and picks Oyster Bay and Sagamore Hill.

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is that tranquility summer home still standing, No, unfortunately.

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A lot of the big homes on the North Shore of Long Island would be bought up and subdivided, so I'm not sure if that's what happened.

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just I to disrepair.

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I'm not really sure, Eventually the neighborhood too shifts into being a residential area rather than a place where people would come in the summer.

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And that was even when the Long Island railroad was moving out here.

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That was something that the people who stayed here for the summer were a little nervous about that.

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If the easier it was to get here, the more people that would be here.

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I believe, when they were staying at Tranquility, there were only eight houses in the area at the time.

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Yeah, so eventually when people start moving into the suburbs, this, this area really starts to become more residential.

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So that's, it's probably along those lines, I guess.

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So you mentioned, that Kovnec Oyster Bay here became a place of lots of cousins, uh, of Roosevelt.

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So what's that story of, of Theodore Roosevelt, uh, acquiring the, the property that becomes Sagamore Hill? Uh, like what was on the Kovnec Peninsula before he takes that property? So Kovnek was, the whole peninsula was originally farmland.

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It was owned by one family, the Young's family.

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Um, and when TR is away at college, he, um, BAMI lets him know that the Young's family is selling off some land.

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So he buys it up.

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So, he bought, uh, how many acres was that original purchase of land? 155 acres.

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Okay.

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acres left.

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I know that TR, after his honeymoon with Edith, um, and they come back to Oyster Bay.

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is a little low on money cause he's not working.

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Um, he also lost a lot of money on his cattle ranch out west.

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yeah, Mm hmm.

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some of that money back.

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He starts selling off some acres to mostly family members.

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Uh, so this whole peninsula was pretty much Roosevelt's.

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wow.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I, I think I'd read that the quote somewhere that, uh, it was turned into a small colony of Roosevelt.

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So I like, Pretty much.

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Yeah.

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I know you've got his sister Bambi there.

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You've got James Roosevelt, Cousin Emlyn, all of them hanging around, so.

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He Yeah.

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TR helped design the house that became Sagamore Hill.

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To what extent Did he do that? What was his vision for the home? And how was he involved? Well, uh, he was very young when he bought the land.

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He was 22.

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Um, and he didn't really know what he wanted.

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Right.

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He knew he wanted a large piazza facing west so he could watch the sun go down over Oyster Bay.

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Um, and he knew he wanted large bay windows in his office facing south.

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That way he'd get the most sunlight.

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Uh, and also he could see when guests were arriving up the carriage road.

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So that's pretty much all he knew.

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He really left the rest of the design up to the architects, Lamb Rich, and BAMI had a, played a huge role in designing the house.

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And it cost about 17, 000 to build.

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Long Island is very different now.

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Yes.

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one little thing I like to add about the house is that TR really concerned himself more with The people that he brought in, like that was his main goal.

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He didn't so much, I don't want to say didn't care, but he wasn't as concerned with what the outside looked like.

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He kind of left a lot of that up to the architects.

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Like Bethany said, he was very concerned with having the inside be welcoming and especially, you know, With, you know, growing a family in this house and, um, having friends and family over.

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And that was his, his real main purpose of building a place like this.

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And I feel like when you're in the house, you can really feel that it feels very welcoming.

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You almost expect him to come walking in the door while you're, while you're cleaning in there or giving a tour.

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It's, it's a really, it's a really inviting space.

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The house was completed in 1885, but Theodore doesn't really move in until he comes back from his honeymoon with Edith in March of 1887.

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Uh, we were going to ask, uh, what, what was that local community there of Oyster Bay like during TR's time, you know, were, were, was the Roosevelt family involved in the local small community in, in, uh, in what capacity? Yeah, like we said, the population has definitely increased, but overall, the North Shore of Long Island, especially the Gold Coast, has really tried to hold on to their historic heritage.

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image.

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So it's actually fairly similar today to what it was then.

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Um, and the Park Service actually has several, um, waysides throughout Oyster Bay that kind of talk about how TR was involved in the town.

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Um, and so these include like the, um, the train station where he was often seen coming or going to Washington DC.

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That's how he got into, got to the White House a lot of times.

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Um, he was also, Often giving speeches at the bandstand.

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That is, um, it's not the original bandstand anymore.

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It was recreated by, um, Ethel, his daughter, um, to kind of honor his memory.

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But, uh, he was often giving speeches in the, in the center of town at the bandstand.

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Um, And he, a lot of his work as president was actually very heavily connected to the town.

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So, uh, he really didn't want a phone.

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He really hated the idea of getting a phone in the house, which meant that his staff had to go down to town, go to Snowder's grocery or drugstore, sorry.

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And, uh, answer phone calls or make phone calls and then.

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Run the message back up to the house.

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So it was a, it's like a three mile journey to take a phone call every time it happened.

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Eventually he gave in and got a phone call and gave his, or got a phone for the house and gave his staff a little break, but his staff also had their, um, headquarters in town, uh, at, uh, what's called the Moore building on, uh, East Main Street.

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Um, now it's a restaurant, a popular restaurant in the area.

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So that building, all these buildings are still there.

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Um, there's still very prominent features in town.

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and the Roosevelt's were very, uh, present at Christ Church, which is still there.

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Um, that's where his memorial was and he would usually make the family walk home from church.

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Um, they might take the sled there in the winter, but he'd make them walk home with their snowshoes.

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Uh, Of course.

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vigorous life.

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So he was definitely a fixture in town.

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And yeah.

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Like we said, the Roosevelt's had their own little colony here.

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So all the Roosevelt's were around.

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In fact, when they would send out laundry, they'd have to.

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Edith had to start putting, um, R of S, the Roosevelt's of Sycamore Hill on her laundry because she kept getting her other relatives laundry back from the laundry service.

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That's a good story.

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very, very prominent in the community.

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I know you mentioned Christ Episcopal Church, and we visited there in December of 2019, and Wow.

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pews had been replaced except for one, which is Theodore Roosevelt's, and being the TR buff that I am, I had to sit in that spot.

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But, yes.

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the Roosevelt's and, uh, their legacy here, Oh, yes.

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especially TR's.

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I mentioned earlier I was jealous, because just to be around all of the The things that TR saw and were in his presence when he was there.

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You have an amazing collection of artifacts at Sagamore Hill.

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I mean, original furniture, the taxidermy mounts from many of TR's hunts, and so much more.

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Could you tell us some of your favorite and most interesting pieces? Yeah, I'll go first.

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I can't pick one, so I am going to say two.

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Uh, on the third floor, there's a hand drawn ship of all the ships in the U.

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S.

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Navy, uh, that was drawn by Kaiser Wilhelm II, uh, so that's pretty cool, um, and then we also have his death mask.

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Um, so someone came and took the mold of his face right after he died and it's so detailed You can see the pores in his skin.

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So it's just really cool to look at Yeah, I also I mean I I have a favorite room Like that's that's kind of how deep it goes.

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Like we all kind of a favorite room So I love the library and I kind of love everything in it because the library the heart of the home.

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And it was, it is especially true with them.

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They were avid readers.

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Um, and so the objects that are in the library and because this house was pretty well photographed as well, we know that these are what was in the library.

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They were all objects that were personally important to the family.

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And kind of putting that against the North Room is an interesting one, because the North Room is very much like a trophy room.

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So that's like nationally important objects.

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Yeah.

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Um, so like one of my favorite objects in the library is this, It's a drinking flask from Norway that was given to him by the king when he was on his European tour.

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And there's a fun story with that in that he met the king's six year old son and got on the floor and immediately started playing with him and then did it again.

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at a funeral later on, um, so it's very well documented not to get too far into it but it is a fun story.

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Um, and it just it kind of I love that it shows his personality because all his kids were older and he just he immediately got down and played with this child and it was given to him because the king said he'd never met the king before.

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Somebody who wasn't from the area that knew so much about the mythology.

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So there's, there's a lot of mythological figures on it and it's, it's a really cool piece.

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Yeah.

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just sounds like T.

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R.

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crawling around on the floor playing with children.

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That is perfect.

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For me, what I love about the house is that, unlike a lot of other historic house museums, have so much of the original objects that are there.

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So it's really hard for me to pick one because everything is not, it's not like You know, this one iconic thing over here.

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It's like we have their whole lives are here.

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So personally, I love all the little details that show like people really lived here.

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Like nail files and the hair brushes and combs.

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And we have lots of toiletry sets for all the different family members.

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Toiletry sets was weirdly a common gift to give people.

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Fancy toiletry sets.

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00:15:37,11.899 --> 00:15:42,621.899
So we have a lot and I just love seeing the, the really lived in aspect of the house.

195
00:15:44,331.899 --> 00:15:50,11.898
I know I had asked the one question in an email back and forth about spectacles, given how many pairs T.

196
00:15:50,11.899 --> 00:15:50,191.899
R.

197
00:15:50,251.899 --> 00:15:50,711.899
owned.

198
00:15:50,831.899 --> 00:15:56,741.898
I wondered if, you know, when we had emailed back and forth, I thought, oh, there has to be a big collection of these.

199
00:15:56,751.899 --> 00:16:02,541.899
But, it sounds like something the family went, eh, and just got rid of.

200
00:16:02,551.899 --> 00:16:05,571.898
So, They were also pretty fragile.

201
00:16:06,11.899 --> 00:16:07,889.919
So chances are a lot of them just didn't survive.

202
00:16:07,889.919 --> 00:16:17,671.898
I was just going to say that, knowing what I know about this family and about TR himself, I imagine a lot of the parents of the Spectacles just didn't survive that's the trip.

203
00:16:18,862.899 --> 00:16:29,981.899
Is there any estimate on, uh, the number of total artifacts in your inventory that you got to keep track of? Officially we have 90, 000, but, Wow.

204
00:16:30,291.899 --> 00:16:32,51.899
we probably have more.

205
00:16:32,416.899 --> 00:16:35,952.899
Close to 100, 000 objects, Goodness.

206
00:16:36,866.899 --> 00:16:38,626.899
depending on which database you look at.

207
00:16:38,626.899 --> 00:16:43,606.899
So it's been, we're currently in the process of doing 100 percent inventory of those 100, 000 objects.

208
00:16:43,811.899 --> 00:16:44,521.899
Wow.

209
00:16:45,92.899 --> 00:16:45,632.899
Wow.

210
00:16:45,882.899 --> 00:16:48,441.899
That's job security, isn't it? That's Yes.

211
00:16:50,682.899 --> 00:16:51,82.899
Wow.

212
00:16:52,692.899 --> 00:17:03,342.898
Uh, well, uh, given TRS, you know, early life in public service, he, uh, uh, about the longest he ever held a job was in DC.

213
00:17:03,352.899 --> 00:17:06,602.899
There's a civil service commissioner for upwards of six years.

214
00:17:06,642.899 --> 00:17:17,177.899
But, uh, you know, so he's, he's working in all these other places, uh, from the late, 1890s, uh, clear into, uh, the vice presidency.

215
00:17:17,177.899 --> 00:17:22,217.899
So hopping around, you know, DC and the New York city police commissioner for a couple of years.

216
00:17:22,237.898 --> 00:17:25,977.899
And, uh, and then back to DC for assistant secretary of the Navy.

217
00:17:25,977.899 --> 00:17:31,57.899
And then, you know, a little stint in Cuba and then, uh, back, back as governor.

218
00:17:31,97.898 --> 00:17:33,287.899
So, you know, up, up in, uh, Albany.

219
00:17:33,327.899 --> 00:17:56,506.899
So, um, I know that, you know, reading, uh, so many accounts of and longing to get back to Sagamore Hill, but could you give us a little bit of glimpse into what was life there at, at Sagamore Hill during those, those early years before the presidency? Yeah, it was very active here.

220
00:17:57,661.899 --> 00:17:59,291.899
TR was like a big kid.

221
00:17:59,311.899 --> 00:18:01,631.899
He was like Edith's seventh child.

222
00:18:02,11.899 --> 00:18:05,1.899
Um, and they were only doing fun activities.

223
00:18:05,41.899 --> 00:18:21,826.899
They like to play this game called point to point Or TR would point at something in the distance and the kids would have to walk straight to it No matter what obstacle was in their way, so they couldn't is, uh, you could go under, over, or through, but never around.

224
00:18:22,206.899 --> 00:18:26,556.899
Um, so they would have to climb trees, wade through water, uh, whatever they had to do to get there.

225
00:18:26,576.899 --> 00:18:31,276.899
They had to climb over a barn once, didn't they? They couldn't get straight through, they had to go up.

226
00:18:31,536.898 --> 00:18:31,716.898
Yep.

227
00:18:32,546.899 --> 00:18:36,16.899
So, uh, they would go swimming over at Cooper's Bluff.

228
00:18:36,226.899 --> 00:18:39,726.899
They would go for long rows in Cold Spring Harbor, uh, go hiking.

229
00:18:39,726.899 --> 00:18:41,416.898
They would have long picnics on the beach.

230
00:18:41,776.899 --> 00:18:44,846.899
Uh, so there was always, they were always doing something, and it always involved the children.

231
00:18:44,856.899 --> 00:18:46,506.899
Horseback riding, hunting.

232
00:18:47,866.898 --> 00:18:49,546.899
Even on rainy days, they had pillow fights.

233
00:18:49,816.899 --> 00:18:50,16.899
Yeah.

234
00:18:51,506.898 --> 00:18:51,846.898
Tennis.

235
00:18:52,126.899 --> 00:18:53,496.899
They always were playing tennis.

236
00:18:54,616.899 --> 00:19:12,481.8985
And one of my favorite stories is like, illustrates this pretty well is the we have a windmill on site that would pump water into the house and one day Uh tr noticed it was stuck and he goes like he's gonna fix it himself He climbs his way up there and he fixes it, but a little bit too.

237
00:19:12,481.8985 --> 00:19:25,301.899
Well, it swings around and hits him in the head So he's bleeding now, and he's going into the house to get Edith's help, and Edith is quoted as saying, Oh, Theodore, I do wish you would do your bleeding outside.

238
00:19:25,331.898 --> 00:19:26,641.898
You are ruining my carpets.

239
00:19:28,461.898 --> 00:19:31,161.8985
And that, I mean, he had an axe for every day of the week.

240
00:19:31,161.8985 --> 00:19:35,321.898
He would go out, if he was getting antsy, she would send him out to cut down trees.

241
00:19:35,321.998 --> 00:19:40,961.899
To help his staff chores the grounds.

242
00:19:41,766.899 --> 00:19:46,386.899
I think, uh, he would get in trouble because the telephone company would put the telephone wires on trees.

243
00:19:47,111.899 --> 00:19:52,941.899
he'd go out and cut the trees down that had the telephone wires on them, so he'd be getting in trouble with the telephone companies a lot.

244
00:19:54,1.899 --> 00:19:59,641.798
And with Edith as the chief forester of Everything, yes.

245
00:20:00,641.899 --> 00:20:06,801.898
she was a much better manager of money and things than TR was.

246
00:20:06,981.899 --> 00:20:14,521.898
What was her role in managing the household and the finances? I mean, that's, you hit the nail on the head.

247
00:20:14,521.899 --> 00:20:17,71.899
She managed the household and the finances.

248
00:20:17,101.899 --> 00:20:19,321.9
he was notoriously terrible with money.

249
00:20:19,711.899 --> 00:20:27,151.899
she, she ran that house from the drawing room, from her desk in the drawing room, which is there today.

250
00:20:27,201.899 --> 00:20:29,431.9
Um, and she was doing the shopping.

251
00:20:29,431.9 --> 00:20:31,101.9
She would help plan the menus.

252
00:20:31,171.9 --> 00:20:32,901.899
She was working with house staff.

253
00:20:33,281.9 --> 00:20:37,981.9
Um, so she really was, she was the beating heart of that home for sure.

254
00:20:38,321.9 --> 00:20:40,1.9
Um, and we still, a cool thing.

255
00:20:40,501.9 --> 00:20:49,391.9
Um, we have in the archives is we have a lot of her financial ledgers and her record keeping books and I always say when you can decipher them.

256
00:20:49,391.9 --> 00:20:50,431.9
They're very cool.

257
00:20:51,231.9 --> 00:20:56,961.9
It takes minute because it's a very much like, well, I know what I mean.

258
00:20:57,336.9 --> 00:21:04,306.9
And she just takes, she just like notates something and it takes me a second to like, oh wait, that goes with something on the next page.

259
00:21:04,746.9 --> 00:21:07,716.898
but once you can kind of figure it out, it is really cool to see.

260
00:21:07,716.898 --> 00:21:32,921.9
And she, she did well at managing the house and it was really well run and it did give him the ability to You know, do what he had to do, run the country, um, do his speaking engagements, kind of be that, that Theodore Roosevelt that we know of today and that, that image we have in our head, I don't think could have happened without Edith and I feel like I can say that I feel like he would agree.

261
00:21:33,211.9 --> 00:21:34,481.9
Oh yeah, definitely.

262
00:21:34,481.9 --> 00:21:42,411.899
so part of that work, uh, that Edith had to do, as you said, was managing a, uh, a fairly sizable staff.

263
00:21:42,471.899 --> 00:21:56,205.9
Uh, I was wondering to, to what extent, uh, is the household staff interpreted there at Sagamore Hill? So, I always talk about the servants when I'm giving tours, um, and it's usually when I'm up on the third floor because that's where they lived.

264
00:21:56,435.9 --> 00:22:04,555.9
Um, they usually had five to seven single female servants that would live and work inside the house, um, mostly Irish immigrants.

265
00:22:05,505.899 --> 00:22:07,645.899
and they were pretty good to their servants.

266
00:22:07,655.9 --> 00:22:10,315.899
If you've ever been there and seen their rooms, they had really nice rooms.

267
00:22:10,755.9 --> 00:22:13,815.9
Um, their cook, Annie O'Rourke, was with them for 30 years.

268
00:22:13,815.9 --> 00:22:15,565.9
She even followed them over to the White House.

269
00:22:15,995.9 --> 00:22:19,815.899
Um, and of course, James Amos was a really important member of the household.

270
00:22:20,175.899 --> 00:22:25,635.9
Um, he then comes back, he gets his own job at a detective agency, but comes back to help take care of T.

271
00:22:25,635.9 --> 00:22:25,805.9
R.

272
00:22:25,805.9 --> 00:22:28,45.899
when he's coming close to the end.

273
00:22:28,45.999 --> 00:22:40,590.9
Um, and, um, So, we definitely talk about them, um, we don't know too much about them, a few weeks ago, tried to do a whole social media post about Annie O'Rourke and really couldn't find too much information on her, unfortunately.

274
00:22:40,900.9 --> 00:22:46,570.9
Um, but we, we try to mention them, um, when we're back by the kitchen too, because they were doing all the cooking.

275
00:22:46,930.9 --> 00:22:50,270.9
Um, so we definitely try and interpret them as best as we can with what we know.

276
00:22:51,70.9 --> 00:22:53,690.9
I know Edith was proud that she never had to learn how to cook.

277
00:22:54,700.9 --> 00:22:54,960.9
Yeah.

278
00:22:56,380.9 --> 00:22:58,970.9
He would often say that he was better in the kitchen than she was.

279
00:22:59,260.9 --> 00:22:59,860.9
Oh, yeah.

280
00:22:59,861 --> 00:23:02,371
In Virginia, he would have to do, he would try chickens up.

281
00:23:02,401 --> 00:23:02,511
Yeah.

282
00:23:02,971 --> 00:23:04,021
Fried chicken and baked beans.

283
00:23:04,21.1 --> 00:23:05,191.0333333
That was his.

284
00:23:05,191.0333333 --> 00:23:07,530.9
And apparently he loved it, so.

285
00:23:09,321.999 --> 00:23:11,942
and there was a, a, a groundskeeper as well.

286
00:23:11,962 --> 00:23:13,252
They had his own residence.

287
00:23:13,392 --> 00:23:17,331
Is that correct? He's often referred to as Gardner Davis, unfortunately.

288
00:23:17,341 --> 00:23:21,870.999
Um, his first name, I know it, and I just can't think of it off the top of my head.

289
00:23:22,291 --> 00:23:24,940.999
Um, but we have what we call the Gardner Shed.

290
00:23:24,971 --> 00:23:27,751
So he only lived there, um, in the warmer times.

291
00:23:28,916 --> 00:23:37,745.999
But he did live there with his sister, um, in the shed that it's, it's a nice shed size shed and there was a stove in there and a loft for their bedroom.

292
00:23:38,85.999 --> 00:23:51,595.999
Um, I would love it if we could do more interpretation, but, uh, Unfortunately, we don't have a whole lot of information and we're constantly constantly trying to get more and more information about the staff so that we can talk about them more.

293
00:23:52,51.999 --> 00:23:52,451.999
Mm hmm.

294
00:23:54,370.998 --> 00:23:54,930.999
When T.

295
00:23:54,930.999 --> 00:23:55,60.999
R.

296
00:23:55,60.999 --> 00:24:00,881
became president, did the residence change? I know you mentioned the addition of a telephone, which he was reluctant about.

297
00:24:01,310.998 --> 00:24:09,435.998
But how else did it change when it became the summer White House? Um, well, a big change was that the house expanded.

298
00:24:09,885.999 --> 00:24:13,195.999
Um, I mentioned in the library, it's, that was the family space.

299
00:24:13,235.999 --> 00:24:19,635.999
When it becomes the summer White House, the family is being pushed out of the library and that's really not gonna fly with anybody.

300
00:24:19,875.999 --> 00:24:22,825.999
Nobody's happy about it, TR included.

301
00:24:23,995.999 --> 00:24:35,495.999
So they end up expanding on the house and putting in a new wing, the north room, um, and that becomes kind of his grand hosting space and meeting space.

302
00:24:35,845.999 --> 00:24:36,855.999
It's another office.

303
00:24:37,115.999 --> 00:24:39,525.999
There's a, there's a small desk there that he can work with.

304
00:24:40,455.999 --> 00:24:44,535.999
um, and a really cool like book alcove where the desk is.

305
00:24:45,185.999 --> 00:24:51,575.999
Um, but the, the room really evolves into kind of a, it was called the trophy room.

306
00:24:51,595.998 --> 00:24:54,165.999
So there's a lot of very cool objects in it.

307
00:24:54,165.999 --> 00:24:59,495.999
It becomes every, most people's favorite room when they visit, um, because it's the most memorable.

308
00:24:59,825.999 --> 00:25:17,350.999
But the purpose of it was to keep sort of part of the house For the family and part of the house this official space that summer White House, another big change is there's secret service protection 24 seven.

309
00:25:17,380.999 --> 00:25:20,710.999
So there's some really cool photographs of secret servicemen.

310
00:25:21,410.999 --> 00:25:23,770.999
You can kind of pick them out, post it around the house.

311
00:25:24,460.999 --> 00:25:29,610.999
Um, People were also allowed to, sort of, he could make speeches from the house.

312
00:25:29,610.999 --> 00:25:32,420.999
People were allowed to walk up and just see him make a speech.

313
00:25:32,420.999 --> 00:25:36,660.998
And there's actually, the porch has this piece of it that has no railing.

314
00:25:36,720.998 --> 00:25:38,190.999
And people ask us all the time.

315
00:25:38,510.999 --> 00:25:40,470.999
Why does this have no railing? That's dangerous.

316
00:25:40,470.999 --> 00:25:43,860.999
Why didn't you replace it? And we get to tell them, no, that was on purpose.

317
00:25:43,950.999 --> 00:25:47,550.998
He put in a pulpit himself, basically.

318
00:25:48,580.999 --> 00:25:59,590.999
Um, and so did, they moved back and forth between DC and Sagamore Hill, but the house does evolve as a result of it being a summer White House.

319
00:26:00,90.999 --> 00:26:03,550.999
And yeah, the thing about the phone again, this, we think of him.

320
00:26:03,870.999 --> 00:26:08,940.999
As a president of firsts a lot, um, that's kind of one of the images we get of him.

321
00:26:08,970.999 --> 00:26:11,550.999
And he was a little resistant to technology.

322
00:26:11,550.999 --> 00:26:14,940.999
I have to say, even though he did improve on the house and expand on it.

323
00:26:15,280.999 --> 00:26:19,800.999
Um, he was slightly resistant to personal change in technology.

324
00:26:20,130.999 --> 00:26:22,530.999
And so he wanted the phone out of there.

325
00:26:22,530.999 --> 00:26:26,210.999
By the time he left office, the kids talked him out of it.

326
00:26:26,210.999 --> 00:26:28,940.999
They started to like having the phone in their house.

327
00:26:28,970.999 --> 00:26:31,600.999
Um, the house wasn't until 1918.

328
00:26:32,985.999 --> 00:26:39,325.999
And so, you know, there, there were a lot of changes to the house, but he also tried to keep it.

329
00:26:40,240.999 --> 00:26:45,850.999
as close to what it had been when his family, um, first lived there as possible.

330
00:26:47,500.999 --> 00:26:48,910.999
It was a retreat for him, really.

331
00:26:49,285.999 --> 00:26:49,685.999
Yeah.

332
00:26:50,556.999 --> 00:26:58,656.999
Yeah, I seem, seem to really idealize that, that simple country life and, and kind of preached that to the nation as, as the ideal.

333
00:26:58,726.999 --> 00:27:04,190.999
Um, so that's interesting that in 1918, before they got electricity, that's Yeah.

334
00:27:05,20.999 --> 00:27:07,130.9985
And it wasn't that it wasn't available in the area.

335
00:27:07,130.9985 --> 00:27:08,640.999
It was just, yeah.

336
00:27:08,640.999 --> 00:27:12,0.999
It's funny because he didn't think that they needed electricity.

337
00:27:12,40.998 --> 00:27:17,30.999
Um, of course, he wasn't the one that had to light the gas lights, cut the wicks, clean the glass.

338
00:27:17,60.999 --> 00:27:19,190.999
He didn't really realize how much work was going into it.

339
00:27:19,670.999 --> 00:27:23,880.999
Um, but he just thought it was just a luxury that they didn't need.

340
00:27:23,950.999 --> 00:27:24,140.999
Yeah.

341
00:27:24,285.999 --> 00:27:42,981.0615
Well, there's just there's one kind of fun story about the secret service in that They used to have um, they would have a shooting range out on the grounds and they would practice and there are stories the children hiding in, in the area while they were practicing.

342
00:27:42,991.0605 --> 00:27:56,636.0615
And so I just can't imagine these, these poor men the heart attack when like one of the children pops out of the bush and is like, Surprise! I'm here! That Wow, too.

343
00:27:57,596.0615 --> 00:28:01,336.0615
Yeah, so the White House gang does also operate at Sagamore Hill.

344
00:28:01,456.0615 --> 00:28:01,896.0615
yeah.

345
00:28:02,566.0615 --> 00:28:03,196.0615
clear here.

346
00:28:03,932.0615 --> 00:28:06,92.0615
they got hazardous duty pay, I hope, yeah.

347
00:28:06,247.1615 --> 00:28:08,676.0615
Yeah, Okay.

348
00:28:08,676.0625 --> 00:28:18,210.0625
So what then, um, becomes of the house after TR's untimely death in January of 1919? So after T.

349
00:28:18,210.0625 --> 00:28:18,370.0625
R.

350
00:28:18,370.0625 --> 00:28:20,850.0625
passed away, Edith continued living in the house.

351
00:28:20,980.0615 --> 00:28:21,480.062
Uh, T.

352
00:28:21,480.062 --> 00:28:21,600.0615
R.

353
00:28:21,610.0625 --> 00:28:22,60.0625
Jr.

354
00:28:22,60.0625 --> 00:28:26,124.9625
actually thought that he was going to inherit the house, but, uh, like we said, didn't.

355
00:28:26,505.0625 --> 00:28:27,465.0625
It was more Edith's house.

356
00:28:27,475.0625 --> 00:28:28,755.0625
She's the one who managed it.

357
00:28:28,795.0625 --> 00:28:29,865.0625
So she was not leaving.

358
00:28:30,365.0625 --> 00:28:35,355.0625
Um, and so she ended up taking over the house and living there, um, on her own.

359
00:28:35,445.0625 --> 00:28:41,955.0625
Um, the family would always come to visit, uh, even down to her great grandkids, remember, who are still living.

360
00:28:41,955.0625 --> 00:28:43,165.0625
They remember visiting her.

361
00:28:43,620.0625 --> 00:28:44,100.0625
Um, T.

362
00:28:44,100.0625 --> 00:28:44,190.0625
R.

363
00:28:44,190.0625 --> 00:28:52,10.0615
Junior ended up, uh, purchasing four acres of land from her and building his own estate, um, Old Orchard, which is the building we're standing in ne we're sitting in now.

364
00:28:53,180.0615 --> 00:29:09,195.0625
and then Edith passed away in 1948, and after she passed away, um, an organization called, um, The Theodore Roosevelt Association, which at the time was the Roosevelt Memorial Association, took over the property and ran it as a museum.

365
00:29:09,275.0625 --> 00:29:16,755.0625
So they made a few alterations to the house to make it more accessible and easier for visitors to walk through as a museum.

366
00:29:16,825.0615 --> 00:29:20,335.0625
And then they eventually donated it to the National Park Service in 1963.

367
00:29:22,15.0625 --> 00:29:24,705.0625
So you mentioned some of the renovations they did.

368
00:29:25,75.0625 --> 00:29:28,485.0625
I know the house recently underwent extensive renovations.

369
00:29:28,565.0625 --> 00:29:32,605.0625
Um, can you tell us about The restoration and the ongoing maintenance.

370
00:29:33,940.0625 --> 00:29:42,570.0625
So the restoration did a lot of work to, um, sort of update some features of the house that were starting to fall into disrepair.

371
00:29:42,990.0625 --> 00:29:46,510.0615
Um, there was work done kind of all over the place.

372
00:29:46,540.0625 --> 00:29:47,680.0615
A lot of plaster work.

373
00:29:47,770.0615 --> 00:29:51,660.0615
But the biggest thing was that it installed, an HVAC system.

374
00:29:51,910.0615 --> 00:30:00,910.0625
It doesn't really provide humidity control, but it does allow us to control what air is coming in and out of the building, um, to help protect the, um, objects a bit better.

375
00:30:01,805.0615 --> 00:30:05,675.0615
Um, in terms of upkeep though, that is a daily struggle.

376
00:30:05,705.0615 --> 00:30:08,35.0615
It is a much older house.

377
00:30:08,205.0615 --> 00:30:12,495.0615
Um, the Roosevelts were not, not gentle folk.

378
00:30:12,775.0615 --> 00:30:15,325.0615
They ragged throughout that house.

379
00:30:15,955.0605 --> 00:30:19,885.0605
Um, so there's a lot of constant work happening every day.

380
00:30:19,885.0615 --> 00:30:21,895.0615
That's a big part of Lindsay's job.

381
00:30:22,265.0615 --> 00:30:24,855.0615
Um, there's cleaning that happens every day.

382
00:30:24,855.0615 --> 00:30:29,825.0615
We have a lot of, um, um, bug work that we have to do.

383
00:30:29,835.0615 --> 00:30:34,505.0615
We have a Japanese beetle issue here, so we're constantly catching them.

384
00:30:34,505.0615 --> 00:30:38,435.0615
Thankfully they don't do a lot of damage to the objects, but they're just kind of everywhere.

385
00:30:38,490.0615 --> 00:30:43,85.0615
yeah, Um, so there's, there's just a lot of work that goes into it.

386
00:30:43,125.0605 --> 00:30:56,120.0615
We have a nice little army of volunteers who also help us, uh, to take care of the house and just constantly keep it, from, um, degrading the way it would be if we weren't paying attention to it.

387
00:30:56,230.0615 --> 00:30:56,510.0615
yeah.

388
00:30:56,550.0615 --> 00:30:58,530.0615
Uh, if we just left it to its own devices.

389
00:30:58,850.0615 --> 00:30:59,180.0615
Yeah.

390
00:30:59,180.0615 --> 00:31:06,870.0615
And another, just kind of a challenge in general with historic houses is the different materials that are, are kept there.

391
00:31:06,880.0615 --> 00:31:13,310.0615
And we have a lot of different materials that are original to the family and to the time period.

392
00:31:13,340.0615 --> 00:31:17,660.0615
So we're kind of, we're competing with time, we're competing with the elements.

393
00:31:18,830.0605 --> 00:31:21,735.0615
we're, Dealing with all of that.

394
00:31:21,775.0615 --> 00:31:41,995.0605
Um, and that's just one of the fun challenges of the job, but it is, it is also something we kind of contend with every day in that there are certain conditions that make certain materials happy, we have a ton of different types of materials, which need to be kept at least relatively happy.

395
00:31:42,45.0605 --> 00:31:42,285.0605
So.

396
00:31:43,70.0615 --> 00:32:01,224.9615
We're constantly always discussing and evolving how that looks and what measures we have to take, you know, manually by, say, putting in air conditioners or humidifiers or dehumidifiers or removing them, um, because something's going on a lot of monitoring a lot of just checking on things.

397
00:32:03,35.0615 --> 00:32:08,279.0415
they, they joke, they let me free in the house and I find problems and they're just like, stop looking at that.

398
00:32:08,279.0415 --> 00:32:09,155.0615
Don't look at it.

399
00:32:09,255.0615 --> 00:32:10,195.0615
Don't look at the wall.

400
00:32:10,355.0615 --> 00:32:10,875.0605
It's fine.

401
00:32:12,315.0605 --> 00:32:18,375.0615
Uh, but, but it is, it's, it's something that we all kind of, we're joking about it, but we all try to keep on top of.

402
00:32:19,85.0615 --> 00:32:24,655.0615
And we have a great team here of people who are very passionate about history and about preserving heritage.

403
00:32:24,695.0615 --> 00:32:37,755.0605
So our maintenance crew is great at responding anytime we have small issues that they can easily take care of, like nails coming out of the ground that are snagging on people's feet get fixed really quickly.

404
00:32:37,805.0615 --> 00:32:43,535.0615
And, um, the interpretive staff is constantly alerting us to, different things that we should probably be aware of.

405
00:32:43,875.0615 --> 00:32:45,85.0615
And, um, then we have.

406
00:32:46,140.0615 --> 00:32:52,560.0615
some historic architects who are kind of on the call that to advise us whenever we have problems that we can't fix in house.

407
00:32:52,790.0615 --> 00:32:56,560.0615
So yeah, it's a, it, it takes a village to take care of one house.

408
00:32:56,980.0605 --> 00:32:57,70.0605
Yeah.

409
00:32:57,420.0615 --> 00:32:57,640.0615
Yeah.

410
00:32:57,640.0615 --> 00:33:00,180.0615
And when we find things that gets taken care of really quickly.

411
00:33:00,490.0615 --> 00:33:01,30.0615
good.

412
00:33:02,41.0615 --> 00:33:02,901.0615
Yeah, that's great.

413
00:33:03,281.0615 --> 00:33:04,691.0615
That, I mean, I love that.

414
00:33:04,691.0615 --> 00:33:06,371.0615
You said it takes, it takes a village.

415
00:33:07,181.0615 --> 00:33:15,910.0615
What is the size of the, uh, of the permanent staff there at Sagamore Hill? fluctuates depending on the season.

416
00:33:15,910.0615 --> 00:33:19,380.0615
Right now we're in a very low.

417
00:33:20,80.0615 --> 00:33:31,670.0605
Um, so we have a few positions that are, we're in the process of filling, but, um, I think our permanent staff, if we're at full staff is about 10 to 12 people.

418
00:33:31,980.0615 --> 00:33:36,140.0615
And then we rely a lot on, uh, seasonal staff.

419
00:33:36,635.0615 --> 00:33:38,835.0615
And volunteers to help out as well.

420
00:33:39,530.0605 --> 00:33:51,945.0615
Yeah, You have a team of, uh, volunteers like docents and there's a, there's a friends organization also attached to Sagamore Hill, is that correct? Yeah, we're very grateful for the community.

421
00:33:51,945.0615 --> 00:33:54,425.0615
That is very, very heavily involved here.

422
00:33:54,795.0615 --> 00:33:58,865.0615
Um, and our volunteers do more than just, you know, do docents and tours.

423
00:33:58,945.0615 --> 00:34:01,595.0615
Uh, some are, some provide tours.

424
00:34:01,655.0615 --> 00:34:04,875.0615
Some work here at the museum to provide information to visitors.

425
00:34:05,255.0615 --> 00:34:09,215.0615
Some help the curatorial staff with cleaning and maintaining the house.

426
00:34:09,385.0615 --> 00:34:18,605.0615
And we even have a maintenance volunteer who basically a lot of the painting that you see around the park is done by our maintenance volunteer staff.

427
00:34:19,901.0615 --> 00:34:20,451.0615
wonderful.

428
00:34:21,131.0615 --> 00:34:35,360.0615
so what tips do you have for, uh, for our, our listening audience here who might be planning a visit there to Sagamore Hill this year? Uh, so definitely the most important thing to know is that if you want to tour the house, you have to go to recreation.

429
00:34:35,620.0615 --> 00:34:36,570.0615
gov to get tickets.

430
00:34:37,360.061 --> 00:34:44,590.0615
we don't sell tickets on site, which lets a lot of people down when they get here because the tickets do sell out pretty quickly.

431
00:34:44,640.0615 --> 00:34:45,420.0615
So it's very rare.

432
00:34:45,420.0615 --> 00:34:48,750.0605
You can come here on the day of the tour and get tickets to a tour.

433
00:34:49,160.0605 --> 00:34:50,840.0615
Um, so definitely go to recreation.

434
00:34:50,860.0615 --> 00:34:50,890.0615
gov.

435
00:34:50,890.1615 --> 00:34:55,605.0615
There's information that talks about how and when the tickets get released.

436
00:34:55,625.0615 --> 00:34:58,525.0615
So I'd read through all the need to know is on recreation.

437
00:34:58,765.0615 --> 00:34:59,245.0615
gov.

438
00:34:59,615.0615 --> 00:35:03,865.0615
Um, feel free to bring your dogs, just make sure you clean up after them.

439
00:35:04,635.0615 --> 00:35:07,345.061
Uh, don't be afraid to come into the museum and talk to the Rangers.

440
00:35:07,345.061 --> 00:35:09,385.0625
Most of us love talking to people.

441
00:35:10,105.0615 --> 00:35:12,955.0615
Yeah, this park is definitely a dog walker's paradise.

442
00:35:12,955.0615 --> 00:35:16,145.0615
We have so many dog walkers every single day.

443
00:35:16,565.0615 --> 00:35:27,205.0615
Um, and I think it's, it's easy for people to get distracted by the big gorgeous house and not realize that we also have the old orchard museum plus, several trails.

444
00:35:27,205.0615 --> 00:35:31,835.0615
And so coming out to the museum is a great idea and getting to see everything we have over here as well.

445
00:35:32,976.0615 --> 00:35:44,260.0615
So can someone walk around the property and, uh, can they come into the museum without paying a fee or, or, uh, it's only the tours that are The only fee activity is the tour inside the house itself.

446
00:35:44,776.0615 --> 00:35:45,216.0615
Okay.

447
00:35:45,736.0615 --> 00:35:46,286.0615
Terrific.

448
00:35:46,880.0615 --> 00:35:47,160.0615
yeah.

449
00:35:48,0.0615 --> 00:35:55,70.0615
So, when someone visits Sagamore Hill, are there Other Roosevelt related sites that visitors should see while they're in the area.

450
00:35:55,70.1615 --> 00:36:10,869.9615
Heh heh Yes, so, um, TR and Edith and a lot of Roosevelt family members are buried at Young Cemetery, which is just across of where you would turn down to the very long road that gets to Roosevelt.

451
00:36:11,170.0615 --> 00:36:12,660.0615
our driveway, basically.

452
00:36:13,40.0615 --> 00:36:20,880.0615
Um, and that it's also definitely worth just checking out the town, because again, you do still feel the family's influence and TR's influence in the town.

453
00:36:20,900.0615 --> 00:36:25,610.0615
And there's a lot of great, um, places and local businesses to check out in town.

454
00:36:25,610.0615 --> 00:36:28,150.0615
So you can definitely make a day out of it, for sure.

455
00:36:28,540.0615 --> 00:36:39,610.0615
Um, there's also, uh, in that same area, next to Young Cemetery, there is the Theodore Roosevelt Sanctuary, which is a bird sanctuary, birds were very near and dear to his heart.

456
00:36:39,890.0615 --> 00:36:44,530.0615
So that's another place if you're interested, that's got walking trails and the sanctuary.

457
00:36:44,940.0615 --> 00:36:49,540.0615
Um, there's also in New York City, the Theodore Roosevelt Birthplace is another national park site.

458
00:36:50,40.0615 --> 00:36:54,340.0615
Who we work very closely with and that's at 28 East 20th Street.

459
00:36:55,180.0615 --> 00:36:56,940.0615
I don't know why that address is just fun to say.

460
00:36:57,600.0615 --> 00:37:01,600.0605
Um, and so that's something you could easily do in the same trip if you were visiting.

461
00:37:02,340.0605 --> 00:37:06,940.0615
And there's also, there's a few sites that are farther out in New York.

462
00:37:07,100.0615 --> 00:37:12,330.0615
Um, but we have Hyde Park, which are the, the Hyde Park Roosevelt's FDR and Eleanor.

463
00:37:12,750.0615 --> 00:37:23,409.9615
Um, they're, Their site is out there and the inaugural site is in Buffalo, which is a bit of a hike, but New York's got a few TR sites.

464
00:37:23,480.0615 --> 00:37:29,770.0625
far is Montauk Point at the end of Long Island? it's a little bit of a drive.

465
00:37:29,770.0625 --> 00:37:31,780.0625
I'd say it's about an hour and a half.

466
00:37:32,70.0625 --> 00:37:35,10.0615
If you're going in the summertime, I would plan for two hours.

467
00:37:35,160.0615 --> 00:37:35,370.0615
Yeah.

468
00:37:37,160.0625 --> 00:37:40,760.0615
There you can see where the Rough Riders had their quarantine camp.

469
00:37:40,830.0615 --> 00:37:43,924.0625
Have you been out there before, Larry? I have not made it to Montauk.

470
00:37:43,954.0625 --> 00:37:44,874.0625
I need to.

471
00:37:44,924.0625 --> 00:37:51,519.0625
we've made it to Sagamore Hill twice and loved every moment of it, Lindsay, Claire, Bethany, This has been great.

472
00:37:51,639.0625 --> 00:37:54,339.0625
We, uh, really appreciate you coming on the show here.

473
00:37:54,339.0625 --> 00:38:02,479.0615
I was going to ask if, uh, uh, where our listeners should go to find out more information about Sagamore Hill National Historic Site.

474
00:38:03,568.0625 --> 00:38:05,378.0625
Um, so you can check out our website.

475
00:38:05,388.0625 --> 00:38:08,418.0615
That would be the first place I would send you to.

476
00:38:08,418.0625 --> 00:38:09,498.0625
So that's NPS.

477
00:38:10,393.1625 --> 00:38:11,92.9625
NPS.

478
00:38:11,273.0625 --> 00:38:14,753.0625
gov slash S A H I.

479
00:38:15,603.0625 --> 00:38:16,663.0625
So NPS.

480
00:38:16,663.0625 --> 00:38:18,53.0625
gov slash SAHI.

481
00:38:18,413.0625 --> 00:38:27,633.0625
We are also very active on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, um, as Saguaro Hill NHS, National Historic Site.

482
00:38:29,123.0625 --> 00:38:35,663.0625
well thank you, all three of you for being on with us today, we've thoroughly enjoyed this, Thank you for having us.

483
00:38:35,933.0625 --> 00:38:36,203.0625
Yeah, thanks.

484
00:38:36,203.0625 --> 00:38:36,873.0625
It's been fun.

485
00:38:37,889.0625 --> 00:38:44,949.0615
Yeah, we so appreciate you making, uh, making time here at the end of a busy workday, uh, to talk to us and our listeners, talkaboutteddy.

486
00:38:44,969.0625 --> 00:38:45,429.0625
com.

487
00:38:47,13.0625 --> 00:38:47,773.0625
Yep, thank you.

488
00:38:47,943.0625 --> 00:38:48,683.0625
Absolutely great.